Wax for Black Patina

After I wax and polish my black patina it realy has faded out to almost a bronze. The polish I use says it cleans and polishes. Is it the type of polish I'm using that is causing the problem? Appreciate any help I can get

Thanks Bev

Answer

Hi Bev,

I'm assuming you're using it on copper foil. It could be the wax. What brand are you using? I use Mother's Cleaner Wax on black patina, and the patina stays black.

If it is on lead and you used liquid black patina for lead, you would leave the patina alone for 24 hours before you polished it.

I don't use patina on lead. I use black putty and then I clean and polish the panel with a natural bristle brush. The lead turns a beautiful black. This technique won't work on copper foil.

I'm opening this discussion up to other people reading this. Anyone that wants to give an answer, please use the comments section directly below.

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Black Patina Application to Old Solder

I have a project I put away 6 years ago without completing. All I need to do is patina the 60/40 solder and add the clasps and chain. What process would I do to prepare the soldered project so the black patina will adhere to the solder? Thank you.
Nancy

Answer

Go here for a Patina Tutorial

Before you wash the panel as directed in the tutorial, go over the solder with fine steel wool or bronze wool. That will clean off any oxidation that took place from sitting for such a long time.

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Uneven Black Patina...Cure??

by Jack Federico
(Wellington, Fl, USA)

Thanks for your site,, I've referred here throughout my project (pic attached). The window is 76"x45". I soldered the front, flipped it, soldered the back, fliped it again (7 days later)and touched up the front. When I applied the black patina (after cleaning etc) those areas that I touched up took the patina great, the areas that I left alone look stained grey. My guess is oxidation, 7 days passed before I touched up the front AND I did not steel wool the front panel before appling the patina. My plan is to remove the patina, clean the lines that need attention, steel wool and re-apply the patina... is this correct???.

Answer

Bronze wool would be better to remove the patina then steel wool. It is available at some stained glass shops and I know you can get it at Ace Hardware. They might have to order it for you. Just make sure it s "Fine" grade, not "Coarse" grade.

Then follow the instructions at Patina.

As strange as it sounds, it's important to wax the panel before you patina as well as after. The waxing removes any residual oxidation. You will see the wax I use when you go to the Patina instruction page. Add some white vinegar to the patina. The amount to use is on that page as well.

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Black Patina Turning Pewter Color

by Nina
(Alfred Ontario Canada)

I am having trouble with my black patina not staying black....it seems to turn a pewter color and loses that wonderful black color. I live in the country and wonder if it could be my water, since I am on a well! The last project I did was fine. I use mother's wax to shine.........
Any thoughts?
Thanks Nina

Answer

Hi Nina,

Yes, it could be your water. Well water often contains natural elements (like iron) that can cause problems with patina.

Here are two things you can try. People seem to have good luck with each one, so try them both to see which works best.

1. Add 1 tablespoon of white vinegar to the black patina (in a separate container).

2. Add 1/2 tsp salt to black patina (in a separate container).

In either case, apply the patina as usual. Blot it off so it doesn't stain the glass, then let it sit until absolutely dry before you polish it. Be gentle when you polish it. In my experience, I have found that black patina need to "set" before it becomes permanent. Too hard rubbing at first will remove some of the patina, causing it to look pewter instead of black. Maybe that's all you have to do before you try the vinegar or salt.

Let us know how it goes.

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Black Patina On Lead and Zinc

by Stan
(Minn)

I have a lead came window with a zinc frame, the zinc gets blotchy looking when using black patina.

What kind of patina do you recommend for lead came and on zinc?

Answer

If you want to darken the lead, brush it with a natural bristle (Tampico) brush after you putty the panel. You can also use stove black to make the lead black.

Here is an answer I gave someone else about patina and zinc came:

"To be honest, I have never found a patina that works well on zinc. Most professionals tin the zinc first, before putting it around the panel, then apply black patina for solder.

I have made a file of tips that people have given, on various stained glass forums, over quite a few years. I have not tried any of the following myself, but for what they are worth, here are the tips I have saved for applying patina to zinc. I'm sorry that I didn't save the names of the people that gave these tips so I could give them credit:

1. To blacken the zinc frame on a leaded glass piece, use a "Scotchbrite" pad and vinegar to scrub the zinc before applying the chemical blackener. That works very well!

2.Lay a thin coating of solder over the zinc and then it will take the same black patina as your solder lines.

3. Use JAX Copper Plate on the zinc. It will produce a black patina on zinc. If you want a pewter finish on the solder and zinc, JAX Pewter Black works well at producing an even finish on both zinc and solder. In any case I find that cleaning the zinc is essential to a good patina application.

4. Rub the zinc with 00 steel wool till shiny. Apply patina for solder on corners or where ever you have soldered and rinse thoroughly. Apply compound cream or wax to your whole project including all the zinc came. Follow normal waxing procedures and buff off. Place your framed glass up on a box or something to lift it off the table and apply zinc patina generously all along the frame and rub it with a soft cloth till shiny. I cannot believe what a good job this makes.

5. Mask the panel and spray black enamel on the zinc frame after making sure it is free of oil by wiping it down with alcohol. The spray I use is Rust-o-leum black hammered enamel. It makes a nice finish. If I leave the solder lines silver, I don't use anything on the zinc frame. If I use a copper finish, I finish the frame with copper enamel."

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Black patina on brass came

by Suzanne
(Beavercreek, OH)

I am refurbishing a hutch that has stained glass inserts with brass came. The windows look good but the brass doesn't match the hardware I'm using. Can I patina the brass came?

Answer

I would guess probably not. If it's a commercially made panel, the brass came most likely has a protective coating on it to keep it from oxidizing.

If you want to try a copper color, you can try some copper patina and see if it takes. Try it in an inconspicuous spot and see if it beads up on the brass came (that means there is a protective coating), or if it changes the color.

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Black Patina

by Maureen
(Benicia, CA)

I was taught that you had to neutralize black patina. Is that true? Would I just rinse with the sudsy ammonia after applying the black patina?

Answer

No...don't rinse it. Patina does not take kindly to water. Pat off the excess patina with a paper towel. Let it air dry then polish with wax.

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A Black Patina Question

I thank you for your patina suggestions. I have had corrosion appear after patina in a month or 2 and my stuff is all indoors...

My question is this: I don't like the dark look the black patina has on projects so I have been using steel wool to "Pewter" them up; make them look a little more silver but not as bright and brassy as not using patina at all. Do they make a more pewter gray patina? By using the steel wool, it can make the solder look a little splotchy. Also, is there a clear wax I can use (you implied that the wax suggested turned the solder black even before you patina it).

Thanks,
Tina


Hi Tina,

First of all, I'm sure many people will want to know what patina you use that makes the solder look really black. Most of the black patina questions I get are from people that can't get the patina to turn the solder a deep black color. It usually turns the solder various shades of gray.

As far as I know the only pewter patina is made by Jax, and I'm not too sure if it is really a pewter color or if it is meant to be used on pewter. Here is their description of it: "Pewter Black produces a dark, black antique finish on pewter, lead, brass, bronze, copper, nickel, tin-lead alloys, and solders." From that description, it leaves me wondering just what does a dark black antique color look like.

If you can't find a solution to your problem, I'd suggest trying bronze wool rather than steel wool to go over the patina. I know it's available from Glass Crafters. If you Google "bronze wool for stained glass", you'll most likely find it available from several places that deal in stained glass supplies.

Also, have you tried applying the patina then wiping it off before it dries? That should give you a lighter color.

Lastly, try a different brand of black patina.

The wax doesn't turn the solder black. It makes the solder bright and shiny. What you misunderstood is that I said you will see black on the cloth you are polishing the solder with. The black on the cloth is oxidation you are cleaning off of the solder. The wax is absolutely clear.

If anyone else reading this has any suggestions for making the black patina less black, please tell us what you do. You can reply in the comments section just below here.

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Black Patina Zinc

by sherry sorensen
(Summerland B.C. Canada)

How can you black patina zinc came?

Answer
Hi Sherry,

This was discussed just a few days ago. This page about Patina Problems should answer your question. There are also several comments, on that page, with suggestions that other viewers have made.

If you have more questions about it, please don't hesitate to ask.

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Black patina

by Wendy Morris
(Christchurch New Zealand)

I have got black solder but the lead is still not as black as the solder. Also so I have just experimented with the bits of advise I could find but could find the full recipe heeeelp please.Wendy

Answer

I believe you are using black patina for solder on the lead. It only makes solder black, not lead.
There is black patina for lead, but it doesn't do a very good job. I found that by going over the lead with very fine steel wool, then scrubbing the patina on to the lead with a scrub pad (like the ones on a scotch brite sponge) it does help to make the lead darker.

Stove black polish works well to blacken lead, but it takes a bit of cleaning up afterwards, however it does give the lead a beautiful finish. That's all we ever used in Australia where stove black patina was available. I have not found anything to equal it here. If you order your supplies from an Australian supplier you should be able to get it. This Place has it. It is listed as black polish paste.

Finally, you can brush the lead with a natural bristle brush. The brush will darken the lead to an acceptable dark finish.

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Removing Black Patina

by jul
(sheb, wi)

I don't like the black patina. How do I remove it???

Please help

Answer

Scrub it off with very fine steel wool or bronze wool, then wash the panel to get rid of any residue left from the removal process.

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Black patina for copper foil

by Larry Irwin
(Mason, Illinois)

I made the mistake of waxing my stain glass project before I used black patina. I haven't put the black patina on yet and wondered what can I do to correct my mistake. Thank you for your help. Larry

Answer

Hi Larry,

Since writing the original tutorial, I have found that the wax won't cause a problem. It will remove any oxidation that could cause a problem with the patina "taking". I just finished a project and used black patina. I now wax before using black patina, and it came out a beautiful black.

I have added a note on the tutorial about wax and black patina.

I added some white vinegar to the black patina. I didn't measure anything, but it was probably about four tablespoons of patina and one tablespoon of vinegar. As I said, the black came out a beautiful deep black.

I'm sorry that if I caused you any confusion.

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Black Patina.

by Bob
(Lees Summit, MO)

I didn't wash off the flux before I added black patina to my solder. I would like to get a nice shine on the patina but don't know how. Should I wash the patina off with ammonia and rinse, then add patina again?
Thanks,
Bob

Answer

Hi Bob,

Yes, you need to wash the panel and start over with patina. You might have to go over the solder with very fine steel wool to get rid of any black patina. Follow my instructions for cleaning a copper foil panel and applying patina. Once you apply the black patina, blot it with a paper towel, then let dry over night. The next day, wax and polish. If your patina isn't turning the solder really black, try adding 1/2 teaspoon salt to the amount of patina you will be using (in a separate container). The salt sometimes makes the patina "take" better.

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Appling Black Patina on Lead Came, Solder, and Zinc Border

by Phil England
(Aiken, SC)

In your tutorial on patina, you include Mother's California Gold Carnauba Wax CLEANER as one of 3 ingredients for applying patina. However, in the following directions, you mention applying Mother's WAX several times. Which is it, Mother's Wax CLEANER, or Mother's WAX? Also, I'm having trouble finding #98 cleaning pads here in our small town. Is some other pad OK to use, so long as it has a fine texture? Thanks for your help. Your tutorials are well written and helpful.


Answer

I apologize for not making myself clear. I was just taking a short cut by calling it Mother's Wax once I gave to full name of Mother's California Gold Carnauba Wax Cleaner.

Your question is titled "Appling black patina on lead came, solder, and zinc border". The technique in the Patina Tutorial is only for copper foil work. It will not work on lead and zinc. The technique for lead can be found at Putty a Leaded Window
The next to the last step, in the tutorial, will show you how to darken the lead.

For zinc, you will find some advise here: Zinc Patina Problems
and here: Patina for Zinc

As for a scrub pad, get the green pads that are scratch free, at the grocery store, for cleaning pots and pans. They're not as good as the #98 scrub pads, but they will work.

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Patina not black enough

by Charlene
(Newport News, VA)

I finished putting black patina on my project. I used the salt in the patina, but it still is blotchy. Is there anything I can do.


Answer
Did you wax before you applied the patina? If you didn't, remove the patina with fine steel wool, then wash and wax the solder before you apply patina. The wax will remove any oxidation left behind. Polish the waxed solder before you apply the patina. if the salt doesn't work, add the same amount of vinegar instead of salt.


Try white vinegar instead of salt.

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Black Patina Wait Time

by Nancy
(Canada)

In your tutorial you state that you have to wait for 24 hours after applying black patina before you wax it. I wondered why? I've not done that before. I treat it the same as I do copper patina. Just wondering :)

Answer

I wait to give the patina time to "set". If I polish it too soon the deep black turns to pale black or very dark gray. That's not to say that my way is any better than yours. That's just the way it works best for me.

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Black patina on leaded copper foil.

by Gail
(Wisconsin)


Lately my black patina wipes off when I buff the wax. I have tried different wax, a new bottle of patina and still have the same problem. Any advice?

Answer

I'm a bit confused by your "title". You are calling it leaded copper foil. Is it framed with lead and the black is comming off the lead, or is the black coming off the beaded solder lines on the copper foil?

If it's coming off the lead, you should be using a black patina specifically made for lead. I put the patina on the lead before I frame the piece, then dab the solder joints when I'm done soldering.

If it's the beaded solder lines, you can read the Black Patina Tutorial on my web site. The section on black patina is towards the bottom of the page. Using salt or vinegar in the patina does make a difference. Instructions about how much to use are in the tutorial.

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Black Patina After Black Cement

by jim j
(n,royalton oh)

After scrubing off the black cement the lead came is black. Do I steel wool black off before applying novacan black patina?

Answer
Novcan Black Patina will not work on lead, it is for solder only.

You do not need to steel wool the panel. Pick the putty, and wipe the panel down with a dry cloth, or do as we do and clean it off with a small vacuum cleaner (hose attachment with a soft bristle brush attached). Then brush the panel with a natural bristle/tampico brush. The more you brush, the darker the lead will get. If the solder joints don't get dark enough, touch them up with the Novcan Black Patina.

I have heard about, but never tried, another method. It is something I want to try as it sounds quick and easy. Here is how the technique was described to me:
Pick excess putty off with an orange wood stick, then steel wool the entire panel. It comes out very clean and shiny. Wipe with a damp cloth, then apply a metal creme polish called Wieman's Metal Creme. Brush/buff well with a tampico/natural bristle brush. It comes out beautiful, black and shiny.

If you haven't read the tutorial about finishing a leaded panel, go to Putty and Finish a Leaded Window

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black patina on lead free

by sean goddard
(saltspring island, bc)

i am having a hard time with the consistent take of black patina nova brand...good and strong...

i am trying to move all my work to lead free and am currently trying 97 tin /3 copper as well as 95 tin'4.5 copper and .5 silver.I have had little trouble using the solder as i have always gone with full heat on my iron 100w with 900 degreee tip
when using the patina i find it will come off in places when washing, so i reapply and the finish is ok.
any tips would be cool as this is how i make my living

Answer

This is a question that I can't answer as I have never used lead free solder. Hopefully someone reading this can give us some advice. If they can help, the answers will be in the comment section just below here.

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Black Patina

by Cathy
(Huntsville, Ontario, Canada)

After I apply black patina to copper foiled pieces, I let it dry but it still turns a bronzy colour after I clean the piece and apply wax. Is there something I'm doing wrong?

Answer

This tutorial might help you.

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Black Patina

by Susan
(Ransomville, NY, USA)

Why does my black patina turn white in some spots and haw do I stop that from happening.

Answer

I would guess the solder hasn't been cleaned well enough before the patina was applied (I'm assuming you're referring to copper foil, not lead came). Wax and polish the panel right after you clean it. Apply the patina as soon as you are finished polishing. Pat the panel with a paper towel to soak up the excess patina. Let it dry, then wax and polish again. This technique should solve the problem.

If you haven't read my tutorial on patina, you can see it at Patina Tutorial

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Is it possible to make black patina at home?

by Bergljot Gunnarsdottir
(Xiamen China)

I am for the time being living in China and can not find black patina unless in huge quantities. Is it possible to use some substitude or make it yourself.


Answer

There is no substitute nor formula to make it that I know of. The only thing you can try is making a copper sulfate solution that is dark in color. You'd have to experiment with the proportions of copper sulfate crystals to water to get the color you want. Even then it would not be black, just a very dark copper color.

If anyone reading this knows how to make black patina or has a suggestion for a substitute please tell us about it in the comments section below.

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Black Patina Mixture

You had mentioned mixing vinegar and salt to black patina; 1 TBSP white vinegar and 1 tsp salt....to how much patina?

Answer

Use only vinegar or salt, not both together.
None of this is an exact science, so it will take a bit of experimenting on your part. Start with 1/8 cup patina or however much you think you'll be using for the one project. You will dispose of the remainder of the batch. Also, use 1 tsp vinegar, not 1 TBSP, and see how that works. You can always add more if you need to. The same goes for the salt. Start with 1/2 tsp. If that isn't making the patina darker, add a bit more.

It's a good idea to keep records so that once you have it right you won't have to experiment each time.

I'm sorry that I can't be more specific. Perhaps someone reading this has a proven "recipe" that they use and would be willing to share with us.

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Black Patina

by Mindy
(Springfield, MA, USA)

In the tutorial for black patina you mention the use of either salt or vinagar in the patina. Do you use either? If so which one. Thanks

Answer

When I use black patina I add salt, only because it's easier to find (in my studio) than looking for the bottle of vinegar (which isn't stored in my studio). I have tried vinegar and I didn't see any difference in the way it deepens the black compared to using salt. Either one will work equally well.

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Black Patina Staining Clear Glass

by Poppy
(Ireland)

Hi There.

I wonder could you help me with a problem. Having made, washed and dried two copper taped soldered stained glass windows, I applied black novacan patina to the soldered seams wiping it off as I went and then rinsed the windows in warm clean water. I almost immediatly noticed that the patina has stained the edges of the clear glass around the solder seams with an oily unremovable shadow, it has only occured on specific pieces of glass front and back and only on the clear glass.

I'm pretty sure that its not from flux residue as the windows were cleaned properly at every stage. Could it be that the flux has etched in to the glass and resulted in patina staining? or a reaction between glass and patina or water ph? or something else entirely???

Any suggestions much appreciated
Thanks,
Poppy

Answer

Hi Poppy,

Occasionally you'll come across a glass that does that. Usually it's irridized glass, but not always. I don't know why it happens, but I have seen it more than once. My guess is a chemical reaction between something on the glass and the patina, but like I said, it's just a guess.

The good news is that I do know what should remove the stains. Toothpaste! It has removed stains on glass that nothing else would touch. Just put toothpaste on a soft cloth and rub over the stains. It will take some serious rubbing, but it should work.

I have recently read that mineral spirits will also remove stains. I haven't tried it, but it is an alternative to the toothpaste and worth a try.

If the toothpaste ends up removing some of the patina on the solder lines, put contact paper on the glass that stains before you re-patina the piece.

If anyone reading this knows the reason why the staining happens, or knows of another way to remove the stains, please let us know by using the comments sections found below.

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Black patina recipe

by artipachi
(Madrid, Spain)

I would apprciate if someone give me the recipe (ingredients and procedures) to prepare my own black patina for solder... Thanks a lot.

Answer

I don't personally know a recipe for black patina. However if you read this Patina Alternative there obviously is a way to do it. Read the last "comment". Hopefully the person that talked about making their own patinas will read your question and tell us how it's done.

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Black Patina Recipe

by Rhonda Klimt
(Hawaii, USA)

Hi,

I live in Hawaii and we are having problems getting patina shipped here. The chemicals in the product make the shipping costs much more than the product itself. Do you have any recipes so I can make my own patina?

Rhonda Klimt

Answer
Hi Rhonda,

There is no recipe for black patina that I know of. However you can make your own copper patina.
The recipe for copper patina can be found Here. It is near the bottom of the page.

Once you make copper patina, apparently it can be turned into black patina according to another person the did some experimenting. You can find that information Here. It is in the comments section. I know nothing more about it than what he said, so I can't guarantee the results. However it's worth a try.

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Black Patina for Zinc

by Sharyn Mitchell
(Prince Edward Island, Canada)

I am having trouble getting the black patina to stick to the zinc came. It just seems to roll around. What is the best thing to apply it with. I have tried sponge brushes, small brushes and even q-tips.
What am I doing wrong? Also it looks messy where the solder lines meet the zinc came.

Answer

This question has been asked a number of times. Here's is one of the answers given: Black Patina on Zinc

You can also look through the other questions and answers about patina, for more solutions to your problem.

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Applying Black Patina to Lead Came

I'm fairly new at doing stained glass projects and have a problem getting the patina to cover evenly on lead came. I use the lead came for framing my pieces. Your site is fabulous and so helpful and informative but I couldn't find anything on the applying of patina on lead. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I used a brush to apply the flux and the solder did flow too much so how do I remove this excess solder? (I read your article after the fact!)

Thanks so much for you help.

Mary Ann


Answer

Hi Mary Ann,

Welcome to the world of stained glass! I hope you grow to love it as much as I do.

We all run into problems when starting a out in stained glass. What seems like a huge problem, can usually become a small one once you have the right information.

Your first problem with black patina is a small problem. Make sure your lead is clean before applying the patina. The slightest flux residue will cause blotching problems. If you don't think your lead is clean, use a fine 0000 gauge steel wool to clean the lead, then be sure to clean off any steel wool particles left behind.

Sometimes lead comes with a less than clean surface, so make sure it's clean before you use it. Finally, be sure you are using black patina for lead.

To be perfectly honest, I have never had good luck using a chemical black patina on lead. Perhaps someone reading this has had good experience with chemical black patina on lead and is willing to share their techniques with us. If so, just use the comments box at the bottom of this post.

When I make a leaded window (my choice of techniques to make windows) I darken the lead by brushing it with a natural bristle brush. Horse hair and tampico are two types of natural bristle brushes. I get mine at our local tack shop (horse supplies). Vigorously scrub the lead with the brush. The scrubbing will darken the lead and solder joints. This technique should work on your lead border.

Your problem with too much solder is in the more difficult catagory. Getting solder off is a lot more difficult then putting it on. There is a product available called Wicking Braid that you can get at most hardware stores. You lay the wicking braid on the bead of solder, then briefly touch the tip of your soldering iron to the wicking braid, without applying pressure. The heated braid will wick up and remove the excess solder. It isn't quite as easy as it sounds, but it does work fairly well. You have to be careful so you don't melt the lead in the wicking process. Once you are rid of the excess solder, you'll have to go back and touch up the solder joints.

What I would do is remove the lead by cutting through each joint on both sides of the panel. Then start over with new lead. It would be quicker and easier. Just be careful so you don't tear off bits of foil in the removal process. Again, if anyone reading this has a better way of removing excess solder, please tell us about it in the comments box below.

I just though of something else you could try first. Flux the joints where there is too much solder. Set the panel on the edge opposite to the spot where you want to start removing the solder. Tilt the panel forward and touch the solder with your iron until the solder starts to run, but not long enough to melt the lead. The solder should drop off onto the work bench. Be sure to wear protective clothing and gloves while doing this, as the solder doesn't always fall where you think it should. It's kind of an "off the wall" technique, but I have used it when it appeared to be the quickest way to get rid of solder. It's worth a try before you attempt one of my other suggestions.

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Trying to get Black Patina to take on Copper pipes

Sue,

I have created a leaded panel, with a frame around it made from copper plumbing pipes. This has worked well but failed on the last step because I can't get the patina to take on the copper pipes. I did try a test piece before I started and it seemed to take well - but I can't recreate this now. To be honest the patina hasn't taken well on the lead either.

Unfortunately I didn't see your advice on getting patina to take until after I'd hit this problem. I did clean the piece with soapy water before applying the black patina with a scrubbing pad. So my two questions are these;

1) Do you think the patina should take on copper piping or should I just give up and paint them?
2) Is it too late to follow your advice now? Can I clean and wax the piece now and try to apply the patina again? If so (I'm in the UK so am not familiar with the product names your mention) can I just buy any car wax?

I've attached a picture.

Thanks for your help!

Mary.

Answer

Hi Mary,

Black patina is meant to turn solder black. It is a chemical reaction between the tin in the solder and the chemicals that make up the black patina. It won't work on the copper pipes.

You could tin the copper pipes then use patina, but that would be difficult due to the mass (size) of the pipes and the need for at least a 150 watt soldering iron. Your best bet would be to paint them.

There is a black patina for lead. I have always found it to give a blotchy coverage. If you're going to paint the pipes, why not paint the lead also.

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changing patina color

by Shelly
(Midwest)

pic seller sent prior to final completion.

pic seller sent prior to final completion.


Commissioned a pricey large suncatchers. After several descriptive messages, I thought I was clear on the color I wanted. I had recently commissioned work by another seller and it turned out the dark charcoal / black patina over the silvertoned soder. Well the suncatcher is uneven in the soder work to begin with, but to make matters worse, its very blotchy and uneven. Mostly silvertone with some charcoalish color. And then a black chain, that really makes the difference stand out. It took almost 2 months to receive my. order. Think it was a rushed job. Can I darken it? What can be done? Thanks.

Answer
You can remove the patina by rubbing over it with very fine steel wool, then go to your local stained glass shop and buy black patina for solder. You can learn how to apply patina Here

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Black Patina Etc

Isn't there some sort of way of getting the solder black using the iron?

Answer
None that I ever heard of. Using the iron would continuously melt the solder and burn off any coloring on it. I wonder if what you're thinking about is to tin zinc came so it will turn black using the same patina used on the rest of the solder.

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Cloudy finish on black patina

by Marilyn
(Montreal)

I've given about 3 coats of black patina on lead solder. It becomes cloudy. What should I do to keep it black?

Answer

Do you wax before as well as after you apply the patina? Waxing both times should solve the problem.

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White Spots on Black Patina (Copper Foil)

by Chuck Bosshart
(Two Harbors Mn.)

White Spots on Patina

White Spots on Patina

Sue, First of all I would like to thank you for creating this web site, and taking the time to help all of us out here in learning this wonderful stained glass hobby.

I have been having a problem with my finished stained glass projects after a few months the solder lines start to get white spots all over them.

I read you tutorial on how to wash and patina the glass projects and found that I was doing it wrong. I have only used black patina so far and I have been using Dish detergent to scrub and clean my soldered project (with a soft brush and sponge) I then dry it, then I apply the patina, Dab it dry then apply ( Clarity ) Stained Glass Finishing Compound let it dry and buff it to a shine.

I'm thinking that maybe the dish detergent isen't getting all the flux and oxidation off the solder lines? I do have a product called CJ's Flux Remover but have never tried it, I thought the dish detergent was doing a good job, but after reading your instructions it must not be. What do you think?

Also can you give me any tips how I can repair the projects that I already have compleated that have these nasty white spots on them. Is there some way I can clean them off, repaitina them and then replolish?

I really appreciate you taking the time and your experience to help us all do a little better job with our hobby's. Thank you Chuck Bosshart

Answer

Hi Chuck,

I'll start off with how to repair the ones with spots. Clean the patina off with very fine steel wool or better yet use bronze wool, which can be obtained from many stained glass suppliers. Just rub down the solder seams with the steel/bronze wool and the patina will come off.

Once it's off, follow my patina instructions from start to finish. When yoy wash it, make sure you scrub well, especially along the edges of the solder seams. Use a toothbrush as well as the scrub pad.

The white spots are quite often caused by humidity, chemical vapors (open flux bottles in the same room), and I have found running my kerosene heater (perhaps the fumes) in a room with stained glass causes the white grunge.

What I see in your picture looks exactly like my glass that was in that type of enviroment until I changed my method of applying patina, as I describe in my tutorial. I have not see any evidence of it since that time. However, I do make sure that all chemical bottles are tightly closed, and I don't run a kero heater any more. But...it still gets humid in the summer (and, unfortunately, I can't change that!).

Make sure you wax well. A second coat certainly wouldn't hurt. Use a tooth brush to get it out from under the edges of the solder seams, and out of corners.

One other comment...I have found that Mothers Wax does a super job and costs far less than any wax packaged specifically for stained glass.

Lastly...you're welcome!

Let me know how your patina looks from now on.

Sue

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Can You Turn Zinc Black Using Copper Patina?

by Carol B
(Florida)

I am a hobbyist who has done stained glass for a couple years now for my own enjoyment. I have never been happy with the color of my zinc borders using black patina. I like the black border but I do not like the option of painting the border, or tinning with solder and then using black solder patina. I am looking for a way to patina to get a nice solid black look.

I read someplace that someone uses copper patina on zinc (borders) to make the zinc black.

When I tried a sample piece, it did turn it black, but then I cleaned the piece and washed the copper patina off. I re-patina'd the zinc with the copper patina and it turned black again. Do you think waxing it will keep the patina on when washing?

Do you have a suggested process to use copper patina on zinc that would tell me when and how to clean it, when to wax it, etc.

Thank you for your insight.

Answer

Hi Carol,

Yes, I have noticed that copper patina turns zinc black. However, I don't use zinc, so I haven't really experimented with turning it black. The only times I used zinc was when I was doing production work for a local studio and they insisted on zinc frames for all panels.

Anyway, I did some experimenting in my studio this morning to see what I could come up with.

First I cleaned the zinc with bronze wool, then applied copper patina with my white scrub pad. It turned the zinc black. I let the patina dry, then went over it with wax. The black came off and left the zinc close to it's original color.

Next I followed the above steps but waxed the zinc before I applied the copper patina. The results were pretty much the same, except the zinc had a nice light antique bronze look to it.

Lastly, I cleaned the zinc with the bronze wool, and applied black patina for zinc. It turned the zinc a deep black. I let the patina dry, then used Mother's Wax on it. You will see the results in the above picture. I know it would look better yet if I had taken my time with it, but time is not something I have a lot of!

You will notice that I did not wash anything after applying the patina. Once I apply patina to anything, it never goes near water again.

If you haven't read my patina tutorial, it's here Patina Tutorial


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Black patina problems

by Kristen
(Gaithersburg, Md)

I have recently finished a project and followd your advice to the tee. I am using black patina but did clean and wax before hand. As I suspected (as I believe the black patina is a "tarnish") the mothers wax removes it. I did wait 24 hours before attempting the polish and luckily I started on the back. Suggestions? I would like a shiny black.

Answer

Try Mother's Pure Carnauba wax rather than the cleaner wax. Also, put 1/2 to 1 tsp vinegar or a few sprinkles of salt in the black patina before applying it. Finally, in my opinion, Classique black patina gives a darker black than Novcan.

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