Soldering Over Patina

After applying black patina and polishing a project can I go back and add more solder on top of patina and then re patina


Answer

You can, but it's messy. The patina makes dirty bits in the solder which are difficult to get rid of. It's easier to rub the patina off with fine steel or bronze wool first. The patina comes off fairly easy.

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Wash before or after patina?

by Melissa
(Puyallup washington)

Do I wash my pendant before or after i use patina?

Answer
Wash your pendant before you apply patina. Once the patina is applied you can wipe off the excess with a paper towel then let it dry. Drying will only take a few minutes. Then wax the pendant. The wax will clean any patina off the glass, and it will polish the glass and the solder lines. The wax will also protect the patina from oxidation.

You can read my Patina Tutorial Here If you don't have the wax suggested in the tutorial, original Pledge will work on a small piece such as your pendant. If you use Pledge, spray it on a second time to be sure you have put on enough.

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Mixing Patina (?)

by Donna
(White Bear Lake, MN)

I recently came upon an artist who, using copper foil, achieved a very rugged, old looking, dull siver with a hint of black (imagine the color of a very old, beat up nikel). I asked how this was achieved andd he said he mixed patina. He gave me no other information and everything I have read says NOT to do this. Can patinas be mixed? Can you use one layer of one patina and follow with another? Have you ever seen this patina and know how it can be achieved?

Thanks for the help-

Answer

This is not something I have done to get the effect you are describing, but I imagine you could put on black patina and wipe it off quickly. Tha would give you the dull silver look. Then apply more black patina in the areas you want to be black and leave it on longer than the first application. You could dab it off with a paper towel when you have the right shade of black, or you could carefully wipe it off to blend it into the dull silver.

If I were you, I'd play with that technique and see what you come up with. It sounds interesting.

As for mixing patina, I have done that many times to get a specific effect. I've used copper first, then wiped black over it, and I've done the reverse...copper over black. I don't know why you shouldn't mix them unless you're talking about actually mixing two patinas together in a container. That I'm not sure about. Anyway, experiment. You might come up with something amazing.

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Redoing a Patina Job

by D Monton
(CT)

Tree Business Card Holder

Tree Business Card Holder

Is it possible to redo your patina? I am new to stained glass and just did a black patina to part of a piece that I am working on (the tree in the picture above) the rest is copper patina. The procedure that I used isn't like yours and I would like to redo the piece. Is this possible? Also, can you add more to your piece once you have polished and added patina to it? I would like to add some decorative wire - but didn't think of it until after I did all the last steps.

Thank you for your help. I think that your website is very informative.

Answer

It's fairly easy to remove patina by going over the solder lines with very fine steel wool or bronze wool. The problem with your piece is the "twigs" coming off the branches. If they are glued down, then there's no problem, but if they are attached to the branches with solder and are free hanging from there, you will pull them off as you go over them with the wool.

Any place where you want to add more wire, remove the patina with either of the wools mentioned above. Just make sure you remove enough patina to give you plenty of room to work. The solder will need to be re-worked in that area and soldering over patina leaves quite a mess (been there, done that!).

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Old Patina

by Jeff
(Stow, Ohio USA)

Can a opened bottle of black patina loose it's effectiveness after a while? My pieces don't look real black, more like a gun barrel sorta, dark silverish kinda. Not a bad look, but not pure black by no means.

Answer

That's a difficult question to answer. By opened bottle, do you mean the lid has been left off or dod you mean it is a partially used bottle with the lid securely on?

If the lid has been left off, yes, there will be evaporation that would affect the strength of the patina. If the lid has been on, then it should be okay. Try adding a teaspoon of salt to an ounce of black patina and see if that makes a difference.

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patinas toxic?

by jess
(canada)

Hello,
I'm just starting to make jewelry from stained glass, and I want to know if patinas are toxic, as the pieces will be touching skin. I'm using lead-free solder, but what about the patinas? Or do you have a suggestion for another product to use instead? Thanks for your help!

Answer

I honestly don't know the answer, but here's what I think. Yes...the patina solution itself is toxic, but the solution doesn't remain on the solder. Patina causes a chemical reaction between the tin in solder and the ingredients of the patina (in fact, it's a very basic form of plating). Once the color change takes place, the solution is cleaned off and all that remains is the copper or black solder. So...once it's cleaned and waxed, I can't imagine that it's going to be toxic to the skin.

The most reliable and safe method would be to have your pieces professionally plated. Do a Google search for Gold Plating to find someone in your area that could do it for you.

Also, I know that many jewelery makers use silver solder and polish the solder rather than changing the color.

If anyone reading this has a more accurate answer, please tell us what you know by writing in the comments section below.

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Remove Patina

by Ruth Matteson
(Minnesota)

I used copper tinned wire and twisted it. Then I patinaed it and tried to attach leaves to it but it won't hold the solder. It held it at the beginning by the rose in the middle and at the end of the vine. Do I need to remove the patina in order to solder it? If so, how do I do it?
Thank you,
Ruth Matteson

Answer

Yes, remove the patina where ever you are going to solder. You can remove it with fine steel wool. When you have finished soldering, make sure you clean those areas to get rid of the flux, then re-apply the patina. Sometimes it's easiest to use a q-tip to apply patina to hard-to-get-at areas.

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Patina on SOLDER

by Roland
(Banning, CA, USA)

This is my second project - I have no problems with Patina on my first stained glass project - the solder turns black and evenly. I did the same way in my second project but the Patina on the solder turned out very uneven. I tried cleaning the solder with steel wood but still no improvement. Please help.

Answer

If you have been dipping the brush into the bottle of patina, your patina has been contaminated and will not give you the results you are looking for. I'd suggest buying a new bottle of patina and try again.

Pour a small amount of patina into a separate container for each new project. When you are finished with the patina, discard any remaining in the container.

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Questions about a pewter color patina

by Claudia
(Newtown, CT USA)

How do I create a pewter colored patina on my solder lines? What do I use to create this?

Answer

Jax Pewter Patina produces a dark antique finish on pewter, lead, brass, copper, nickel, tin-lead alloys, and solder. I know that Warner Stained Glass has it in stock, or you can do a Google search to find other suppliers.

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Scrub pads

In a pinch due to lack of time, can I use a Scotch Brite scrub pad for cleaning off flux instead of the white scrub pads?

Answer

Yes you can. It isn't quite as effective, but it will work. Try to get the one without a sponge attached. It's much easier to work with, especially when applying patina.

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Silver Finish

by Kate B
(UK)

I am struggling to find out how to keep finished copper foil items looking nice and bright silver? If I just leave it, it soon turns a dull grey

Answer

If you wax it well it will stay silver longer. Solder oxidizes over time, so unless you have the pieces silver plated you will always find oxidation forming. Give it 2 coats of wax. The first coat will clean off the oxidation that forms during the cleaning process. The second coat will be a protective coat of wax. Check to be sure your wax is carnauba wax. I like Mother's Carnauba Wax that can be bought at most automotive supply stores.

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Silver Patina?

by John
(J.C. TN)

My wife and I were looking about the web and saw a piece that was done in "silver" patina. I have searched the web and can not find anything like it. We are familiar with silver plating and of course gold plating. Does any one make a silver patina or is there a way to make your own silver patina? Or was it a miss it the description?

Answer

There is no silver patina. The piece was either silver plated or the solder was cleaned well and polished to a high sheen. Also, they might have used silver solder which is used in jewelery making.

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Waxing Patina

If I wax before I use the black patina do I need to rewax after applying or is waxing before all I need to do?

Answer

Wax before and after. The before waxing removes any oxidation that is left on the solder. The after waxing polishes the entire panel...glass and patinaed solder.

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Leaving Solder Silver On Copper Foil Project

I would like to do a copper foil project that I keep silver on the solder lines. (no patina) Does this alter your product at all? Will the finished product look dingy over time, or just fine. Should I use the silver backed copper foil? Thank you for your time.
Susan Windsor

Answer

Use silver backed copper foil if your glass is cathedral glass (you can see through it). If you are using opalescent glass, copper back is fine.

Make sure you wax and polish the piece well after you clean it. It may need an occasional polish with a spray of Pledge and a soft cloth, but other than that, it will look just fine. There are many stained glass artists that prefer the silver look.

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Gray Looking Patina

by Jane
(MN)

Hi Sue,
I need your help again.
I have a panel that was done a few years ago.
The black solder lines are looking grayish now.
Should I take a wire brush, scrub over the solder,and re-patina?
Thanks!

Answer

Hi Jane,

First of all try waxing and polishing the panel. See if that will get rid of the gray. Most times that's all it takes.

If waxing doesn't help, use fine steel wool, or better yet use Bronzo which is a bronze wool sold by some stained glass retailers. Scrub with the "wool", right down to bright shiny solder. Proceed as you normally would for cleaning and applying the patina.

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How do I clean Large projects?

by Jean
(West End, NC, USA)

When cleaning a very large panel prior to patina, how do you suggest to clean if transporting it to water is difficult? I work on a second floor level and would need to carry my project outside to a spigot to clean a large panel from flux and patina etc.

Answer

If you have a bathtub on the second floor, that would work for cleaning your panels. Just make sure you place some towels in the tub before you put the glass in.

If you don't have a tub, you can clean it on your work bench. Put towels under the panel, large enough to catch water. Have a roll of paper towels on hand for wiping the panel. Use a basin full of warm water to clean with. I've had to do this on a couple of occasions. It's time consuming and messy, but it works.

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How to Patina then apply decorative corner pieces

by Georgia
(Alexandria, LA USA!)

I am using decorative cortner pieces for the first time on a panel I've made.

The corner pieces are brass, my piece is copper foil cnstruction and I intend to apply black patina.

Can I patina the brass pieces as is, or do I need to tin them? Is this just me or do I really need to patina the back side, then solder the corners in place and patina their front side along with the front?

Hope that made sense. Thanks for your willingness to help us novices.

Georgia

Answer

Whether you patina the back side depends on the glass. If it's glass you can see through, then you really should patina the back. If it's opaque glass, there's no need to.

You should tin whatever part you want to patina so the patina takes the same on the corner pieces as it does on the rest of the panel. Otherwise, the corner pieces could turn out much darker or much lighter than the solder lines on the panel.

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To Patina or not to patina??

by Lisa
(Dayton, Ohio)

Hello,
I just completed a large piece (large for me, 36x24). It has a zinc edge. Do I have to patina the piece? will it discolor if I do not patina it? I used a 60/40 solder.
Thanks!




Answer


No, you do not have to patina. Just wax and polish. The wax will protect the solder, but the solder will oxidize over time, so it will need an occasional re-waxing. I like using Mother's Carnauba Cleaner Wax on solder. It cleans off any oxidation and polishes up to a beautiful shine. You can get it at most car care stores like NAPA, Pep Boys or Auto Zone.

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Solder lines or zinc frame first?

by Debi
(Syracuse, NY)

I was told that one of the patinas (either for lead or for zinc) overrides the other. One of them takes off the other, but I can't remember which one should be applied first to avoid that.

Answer

I have never heard of that theory, but perhaps someone reading this knows the answer to your question. If so, they will put it in the comments section below.

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something to remove patina

by kevin yard
(tully,ny)

something that removes patina/corrosion oxidation from zinc so that solder will stick

Answer

Scrub the zinc with fine steel wool or bronze wool. Then wipe the zinc down with alcohol. If you want to solder , but don't necessarily want to remove the patina from the entire piece of zinc, scrub the area to be soldered with a brass wire brush.

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Out door Patinas

I intend to hang a piece outside, I am wondering how black or copper patinas will stand up, and which is better. I plan of bringing the piece inside for the wet winter season.

Answer

Hi,

The copper patina will start to turn the green that you see on any copper that is outdoors. It is really quite beautiful. I honestly don't know how the black will hold up, although I think it will turn grayish. Perhaps someone reading this has had experience with it, and will tell us what to expect.

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poisonous

i know verdigris patina is very poisonous. are there non-poisonous patinas and which ones are they?
thanks

Answer

No there aren't any non toxic patinas. All patinas are made from various chemicals all of which are toxic. Some may be less toxic than others but they are still toxic. You should always work in a ventilated area and wear vinyl gloves when applying patina. Once it has performed it's chemical reaction with the solder, then has been cleaned and waxed, it will have been rendered harmless. It's only in it's liquid state the it is toxic.

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Patina Advice

by Kathy
(Victoria, BC)

Your patina tutorial suggests adding 1 tbsp vinegar or 1 tsp salt to the black patina to make it darker and shinier. I don't see any advice as to how what proportion of vinegar or salt to patina should be used. What is your suggestion?

Answer

Add the white vinegar or salt to the amount of patina you think you'll be using for that particular project. It usually works out to be about 1/4 to 1/3 cup patina. Be sure to dispose of any that is left...don't pour it back in the bottle.

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Any way to get a "do-over"?

I finished a copper foil panel and used pewter patina on the solder lines and zinc frame. But I don't like how it looks -- it was much prettier with the silver solder lines. Is there any way to get the patina off so I can just wax the solder lines and frame?

Answer

To remove the patina, go over the solder and zinc with bronze wool or very fine steel wool. Then wash, dry and wax the solder and zinc. It will come up bright and shiny.

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#98 white scrub pads

by Mari
(Kempton Park - South Africa)


I live in South Africa and we don't have this brand. Can you tell me what it is made of and how ruff is the scrubbing? I find a lot of times people talk about products they use, but we, that don't live in the USA have to find something similar locally. For instance, I want to thank you for advising me on the Mothers wax. But over here in South Africa I just bought a normal car wax and worked like a dream.

Answer

The white scrub pads are similar to These I'm sure they would work for you.

If you can't find Mother's Wax, make sure you get a car wax that is pure carnauba wax. If what you got isn't pure carnauba, it might work for the short term, but will not give the long term protection that pure carnauba gives. Mother's is available in South Africa Here.

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can you patina pewter


I was wondering if you could patina or darken pewter?

Answer

I don't know. Perhaps someone reading this can answer your question. If so, the answer will be in the comments section just below here.

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